Friday, January 27, 2012

Telling the Truth: How to Let a Guy Down Easy



This blog comes in three parts. I present in the first part an argument. The two following sections are the responses of two girls that have been generous enough to provide a female perspective on the matter. After each of their responses I have included my own commentary on a few of their points and end with a summary of the point of this post. Hopefully it is instructional and very helpful to all.


Me:

With my many years at BYU (and they have indeed been many) I have met quite a few girls. Being a guy of the LDS type, I try to follow the council of my leaders and go on dates, get engaged and eventually married with kids living in a nice house in a small town. But, I digress:

In meeting girls, asking them out, and attempting to be a good Mormon boy, I have come across one main theme: Girls will often avoid the whole situation. I have experienced many a time when I called girl and she never return said phone call. I ask a girl out and she makes vague references to some type of activity, but not exactly sure and the time seems to coincide but not really (it seemed like she was trying to confuse me into backing out of the thing, but she greatly underestimated my complex thinking processes). And then there’s my favorite, The girl has a legitimate excuse and says she would love to some other time so when I call in the promised favor and she is either busy again, or some imaginary boyfriend pops up out of nowhere.

Anywho, it is rather frustrating for the guy trying to fulfill his responsibility, and sucks out his motivation to keep trying. I have talked to girls concerning the topic and they usually throw out ideas like, “I don’t want to hurt his feelings.” “I’m just not interested.” “I don’t know what to say.” Well, let me give you a few ideas.

First, you don’t want to hurt our feelings? I’ll let you in on a little secret; not saying anything hurts our feelings way more than stating the truth. It’s like the old proverb, “if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?” Of course it does. It seems that girls have the mentality, “if I don’t see him, it’s like it never happened.” NOT TRUE! Sure, the truth may sting a little bit, but guess what ladies, we can take it. We’re men. We can get over the whole thing if we actually know what’s going on rather than sitting around wondering if she’s going to call back and slowing going from creating lame excuses for you to hating your guts and hoping you remain old maids living with hundreds of cats. (Okay, maybe that was a little harsh.) But really, tell the truth. Like the Bible says, “the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)

Second, you’re not interested? Great, tell us. If you try dropping hints with such things as “maybe some other time,” “I’d like to, but I’m busy,” we’re going to take you at your word and try to set up a date for “some other time” when you are not “busy.” If you don’t want to, then say, heaven forbid, NO! Maybe not with the exclamation mark, or the capitalization, but you can say no. Again, we can take it, and even more surprisingly, we’ll move on. We now know you’re not interested and move on the next uninterested girl. Yay! (by the way, Jimmy Eat World has a great song concerning this very situation. It’s called “If You Don’t, Don’t.”)

And third, you don’t know what to say? Do I really have to spell it out for you? Have you noticed a pattern yet? I don’t think I can stress it enough, TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Maybe I can.)

Really, that’s all we want, straightforward answers with no hidden messages, and no clues we have to follow to unlock the treasure. Give it to us strait. I can promise, for at least most men, that we will not get angry and throw a fit, we will not break down into tears and force you to listen to our sad stories of constant rejection. We will respect your wishes (as any real man would) and we will leave you alone.

Girl 1:
Dear said boy,
I can understand your frustrations in said dating life. Be assured that it is complicated, frustrating, and discouraging to the rest of us as well. But as to your subject of writing it is true that many girls see it as "not wanting to hurt the guy." I realized the futility of such an approach and found that it works much better. The boy understands completely and although I still feel mean, it was necessary. That's not to say I say it meanly, but rather, I say it plainly. A guy has so much more respect when girl says it that way instead of going about indirectly. A boy even told me "I couldn't even be mad at you because I respected you so much" when I had told him that I was not interested in dating him. So yes, I agree with you that it should be said directly to someone if you are not interested in going out with him.

Secondly, I think there really are times when a girl is busy or she really does have a boyfriend. My point is that just because a girl says she is busy, doesn't mean she is making up a lie to avoid a date. I have had times where a boy will ask me out and I really do have something going on. BUT! with that said there are two things that are necessary to point out. Sometimes it is because the boy asks too late (but I am assuming you have figured out it is better to ask girls out early in the week). The other thing is that the girl should say something to encourage the boy. She should suggest a different time for a date or something to the extent that will communicate to the boy that she really would go on a date, but is sincerely busy. It happens.

Lastly, although I understand your frustrations, this blog entry gives the impression that you are a bit bitter. Although I understand where those feelings might come from, I also understand that you may only be slightly frustrated and not actually bitter. But for all intents and purposes, I think that blogging this particular entry would give people the impression that you are bitter at love and that might discourage those who are interested. Once again, I understand your frustrations and you are only slightly annoyed with this whole situation, but this does create the illusion of utter anger. But this is just my opinion and you do not have to agree. I believe in the ability to have separate opinions. so yes!!! I agree with your point, but feel it could be delivered in a calmer manner that might get the point across better to your female friends such as I...even though I don't know you.... I think anyway...so yeah!  Good luck and I hope things go better. But do not get discouraged.... only one has to work. I keep telling myself that...haha! I hope this helps! 

My Comments:
In regards to the first girl’s response (I do not know this girl, but did appreciate the response):

I do not mean to come across bitter, I can understand why you think that way, but hear me out on this. I do know that there are occasions when the girl truly is busy and even does have a boyfriend. In fact, I have never personally run into a situation where the girl makes up a boyfriend, but I have heard plenty of friends that are girls tell their stories of doing just that, so know that it does happen. Also, I did have a similar occurrence where I asked a girl out; she was busy and said she would love to some other time. Two days later I learn that she had a boyfriend. Why not say so? It would have avoided a very awkward conversation later on when I would have followed up on that promise of another time, luckily I discovered the truth early enough to avoid the whole situation. I have also had an experience where I asked out a girl three different times over the course of a month and a half (not usually my style, but I really like this girl), and every time she had a ward party. Really? Three ward parties in that amount of time? I highly doubt it.

I do like the idea of a girl suggesting another day and time and believe that it is something that should be utilized more often, especially if the girl is interested. This really would help the guy to keep from getting discouraged and perhaps lead to something great.

Girl 2:
As a BYU student who graduated unmarried, and spent little of her student years in any sort of official relationship, I’ve been asked on my fair share of dates. Have I ever vaguely turned down a first date? Have I ever said yes and found excuses not to go on the date later? Have I ever pretended to have a good time and agreed at the doorstep to go on a second or third date, and then managed to avoid it somehow? Yes, yes, and yes. Guilty as charged. (To my credit though I got progressively better at saying “no”, and I haven’t ever ignored a call or voicemail, and I’ve only ignored a text once…and he was a stranger who looked up my phone number on the BYU student directory. I don’t respond favorably to total strangers who mess with my personal information)

So the big question now is why? I’m not alone in this; there are plenty of other girls who do the same. We’re well aware that if we don’t say no right away then we’ll just have to say it further down the road and it will only get harder. So why not save yourself and the guy involved a lot of trouble and worry by just giving an honest “no” right off the bat?

The short answer is that it seems easier. Turning someone down is hard! By avoiding a definite “no,” to us girls it feels like we have solved the problem of not having to go on a date with a guy we don’t like while avoiding a potentially very awkward and insulting conversation…that could have awkward repercussions whenever we run into that guy at church, in class, in the library, etc. And in our eagerness to avoid our fear of confrontation, we dismiss the fact that guys are busy agonizing over what we really mean, and tell ourselves that we are helping preserve their pride and ego by being vague. We girls can be very selfish sometimes whether we mean to be or not.

There are countless sub-reasons why we may not say exactly what we mean too. Here’s a list of some of the main reasons my girl friends and me through the years have carried on this legacy of not entirely telling the truth.

1) Guilt. As we girls have all had drilled into our brains since Young Women, you never say no to a first date (unless he’s a creeper, in which case you’re excused). Once a guy has put forth the mental exertion to think up some date, and worked up the nerve to come and ask you, and offered to pay for your evening of “fun”, you owe him the courtesy of saying “yes” whether you want to or not. If you say no to a first date, you are either a total snob who is too stuck up to give a nice boy a chance and doesn’t deserve any dates anyway, or a cold-hearted merciless Amazon beast who eats men’s hearts for breakfast. Or both.

So…what if you really really know you don’t want to go? Rather than be labeled as rude or mean for saying no, we choose to be vague. We feel less guilty when we don’t actually say “no”.

2) Pity. Sure there are plenty of guys who are fed up with girls not being clear when they don’t like them and want the cold hard truth, but there are lots of insecure soft-hearted boys who won’t take the hit so well. For example, once a random guy started talking to me. He was socially awkward, not very good-looking, a poor conversationalist, and he talked just like young George McFly, but was obviously very sweet and sincere. Not to be judgmental or anything, but I wasn’t interested in a date at all. After a few minutes he asked me out. He concluded his request for a date by adding that he was used to getting turned down, so free food was the bribe.

How can any nice girl look a guy in the eye who has rejection written so clearly on his face and who obviously has taken an emotional beating in the past, and tell him straight out “no, I’m not interested in you either”? Poor boy  So…I told him I had plans. Which I did…just not at the same time. And for some reason I felt like I had done him a favor by not saying no, even though I hadn’t really.

And how do you know which ones can really take it, and which ones just put up a tough front while they get all cut up inside? It’s easier to play it safe and feel better by being vague.

3) It seems presumptuous early on. If I were to respond to every guy I didn’t want to date when he asked me out for a first or second time, “you know, you’re really cool and everything, but I’m just not interested,” I’d feel like I was saying, “I know you’re probably madly in love with me, and I can’t say that I blame you. Really though, you’re just not good enough for me, so I guess you better go find a different eternal companion,” when really, he might be thinking “hey this girl is nice and she doesn’t seem to get asked out much, so maybe she’d like going to this random concert that I have to find a date for anyway.”

4) Unclear intentions make it hard to bring up. This is kind of along the same lines as #3, just further along in the dating game. Believe it or not, girls are not mind readers. We have a hard time understanding what boys are thinking too! So sometimes it’s hard to know if a guy likes you to the point that you should let him know you’re not interested. So at what point exactly does saying a courtesy “yes” to a date get replaced with it being more polite to say an honest “no”? When should it be assumed that the guy is interested, and not just getting to know you? Some guys seem to think it’s rude to not give them a second chance, and that second dates should be accepted like first dates. Other guys think if you say yes to a second date it means you’re potentially into them. What’s a girl to do? If he asks if I want to go to dinner with him, is he really asking if I like him? Because it’s “yes” to the dinner, but “no” to dating…so, what’s the best thing to say? So it ends up being an awkward vague maybe.

Obviously some degree of interest is shown when a guy asks a girl out, but it’s just hard to gauge how much sometimes. I know for me personally, it’s easiest when they come out and say it. I’m probably a bit off the beaten path in that regard…most people seem to hate DTR’s. But if at some point between dates (after we’ve gotten to know each other well and are comfortable being open) the guy can confidently tell me he likes me, or something to that extent, then that presents an opportunity to say “well thanks I’m flattered, but no I’m not really interested in dating you” or “Yay! I’m yours!” That is waaay easier to understand and follow through with instead of something more like “Hi, want to go mini-golfing with me on Saturday?” “No, because I don’t really like you.” Not knowing what the other person is thinking make things awkward for everyone.


5) The dreaded doorstep scene. When guys ask girls out on the doorstep after a date, it puts them in a pretty tight spot. I mean really, what are you supposed to say? “No, actually, I didn’t have fun with you tonight. Sorry you wasted your money on me. Save it for another girl next time, and maybe be funnier, or don’t talk about computers the whole time, or plan a date that’s actually fun, or something. You might have more luck that way. Well, have a nice night Mr. Reject, see you in class tomorrow.”

Turning down a future date right after a date just seems like a major insult. It’s like yelling “your party was so lame I don’t want to come back next year even though it’s free” over your shoulder as you leave your friend’s birthday party. For whatever reason it feels like an insult to both the boy and the date he planned. Plus then you end with that awkwardness hanging in the air, and the next time you see each other there’s still that lingering bad feeling. I’ve definitely said “yes” to future dates when asked at the doorstep, and then turned them down when they were cashed in later. I know it’s mean to potentially get his hopes up for a future next time, and then have them dashed on the rocks. But as hard as it is to give an honest “no” when you’re not interested, it’s a lot harder when it’s compounded with the doorstep post-date scene.


So there you have it; five reasons why girls don’t say what they mean. And I don’t think it’s fair to end this without including my most recent first date story.

Once upon a time, a guy I didn’t know very well asked me on a date. I had seen him around and we had mutual friends, so I knew who he was even though I didn’t know him well personally. I wasn’t really attracted to him at all, he didn’t really stand out to me as anything special, from what I had seen of him I didn’t expect to ever be interested in him, I didn’t care if I never saw him again, I wasn’t especially excited for the event we were going to, it was really late notice and I was tired from work, and I really just didn’t want to go at all. If I had been honest with him, I would have said no to the date. If it hadn’t been such late notice I might have tried to make up excuses. But…I didn’t. The date wasn’t that great, and if he had asked me on a second date right away I probably would have tried to vaguely turn it down. Instead, he became friends with my roommates, and found reasons to be around me and doing things with me in non-date settings (Halloween costume planning and shopping together, having long random conversations about school and life, organizing movie nights with our roommates once a week, decorating sugar cookies at my apartment between sessions of Conference, planning to both be at social dance club, etc). Then finally after a couple weeks, he came right out and told me he liked me. We had still only been on one official date, but by that point I was completely smitten. I told him I liked him too, and lo and behold, now we’re married!!

But, if I had told him truthfully that I wasn’t interested when he asked me out at first, I never would have realized how wrong I was. It kind of makes me wonder how many guys I’ve missed out on through the years because I either avoidantly or honestly turned them down instead of just going on one more half-hearted courtesy date. It also makes me wonder how many guys have been turned down because the girl was so caught up in saying “yes” or “no” to the artificial atmosphere and implications of an official date that she didn’t get the chance to really get to know the guy. For our particular situation, “dates” would have probably ruined our dating experience. Or perhaps more correctly, the stigma that gets worked up around dates would have ruined it because I would have been worried about what was correct protocol instead of just getting to know him.

Oh this dating game is such a sticky mess of miscommunications and uncertainty! I’m just glad I don’t have to play it anymore 

My Final Comments:
Now, as to the second girl. She makes some very good points and I agree 100% that the situations are pretty iffy when it comes to saying yes or no. I have come to understand the whole purpose behind girls saying yes to a majority of first dates. I respect it and in certain occasions, am grateful for it. The first day is for getting to know someone better. The interactions on a date are very different and it takes a while to get out of that “nervous zone” (this is a topic for an upcoming post). So, as stated, unless the guy is a complete and total “creeper,” please say yes.

The doorstep is an awkward time in the whole dating process. As a guy I never know what to say or to expect. I would almost never ask a girl on a second date at the door (I must confess I have done it once) so I can understand that one. Unclear intentions? That is the purpose of a DTR, to figure out what exactly is going one. You don’t have to decide the rest of your lives based on only two dates, but if you know for sure you’re not interested, then say so. I do believe that after a few dates, perhaps three or four, you should be able to at least say if you want to keep getting to know each other or not, even if you don’t declare boyfriend/girlfriend status.

To summarize, the purpose of this post is to try to get girls to understand that they don’t have to be afraid to tell a guy no. I get that in certain situations it may appear rude to say “no” but don’t put it off too long, and definitely do not avoid it all together. I think the different perspectives help to illustrate that point and hopefully inspire some to do better.